On June 27th, I interviewed the Chief Curator and Visual Arts Director at the National Museum of Mexican Art, Cesáreo Moreno. This post is a transcription from the interview.
Nina: Currently, you are the Director of Visual Arts and Chief Curator at the National Museum of Mexican Art where you have curated numerous exhibits for the museum. When did you first become interested in curating art? How did you become involved in this Museum?
Moreno: I first heard about the museum when they opened, and I started coming and checking out what they do. In 1991 they invited me to create an ofrenda, an altar for Day of the Dead. After I installed the ofrenda, they saw that I had a lot of the skills required for installing artwork. I was the graduate teaching assistant at the School of the Art Institute for wood shop; I knew how to make and hang things, so they invited me to help them install exhibits. I agreed, and soon after that they asked me if I would travel with a new exhibit they were going to create called Arte Del Oro Mexico where we would go to the Museum of Mexican art in Mexico city, San Francisco, Palm Springs, New York City, and Chicago… seven cities. They said, ‘you’ll be on salary, and airfare, hotel, and food for every day will be covered.’ I thought that was the most amazing offer I ever heard, so I immediately said yes. After three years of traveling with that exhibit, I came back to Chicago knowing that I can do this job and like doing it. So that's how I got started here. I kind of accidentally came in through the back door—that was kind of my introduction into the museum world.
A few years later I became the Head of Exhibitions. And now I’ve been here for thirty-two years. That’s kind of like the nutshell version.
Nina: We are at the National Museum of Mexican Art, which displays art made by Mexican artists. How has your own identity and personal experiences shaped your style of curating?
Moreno: Ok. Very good question. I have always remained connected to Mexico. I’m first generation so I used to go every summer through my grade school. I would spend summers with my tíos and tías. I completely understood and loved Mexico. I lived in two worlds; I lived in the summer in Mexico and the rest of the time on the north side in the city of Chicago. So I had that going for me. I understood and loved my culture.
The other thing is my knowledge and love of the arts. My undergrad degree is in philosophy, and I have an MFA from the School of the Art Institute. Even when I was in undergrad I was always taking art classes—ceramics, printmaking, and photography. The arts have always been an important part of my life, and I always gravitated towards them. In high school I was the 'art kid.' I did the cover of the yearbook, the newspaper, logos, things like that.
The third leg of the stool would probably be my calling to work within the community. I was in the seminary for undergrad for two years of college, and liberation theology is something that really piqued my interest. This third part has more to do with my desire to want to give and help and work in the community. Now as I'm an old man curator looking back, I realize those are the three things that continue to support my path as a curator.
Nina: With all these different experiences including your Mexican-American identity and interest in art that shaped you as a curator, what are some exhibits that you are most proud of?
Moreno: Oooh. You're pulling out that question!
I've curated Day of the Dead exhibits, it’s an annual exhibit, and I’ve curated fifteen of them. And I still enjoy curating those exhibits. I learn new things each time. And it’s such a beautiful tradition that touches on the universal concept of life and death. It's a real experience. It’s not about artifacts, it's about living and loving each moment because it’s finite. So Day of the Dead really challenges me every time I curate it; all fifteen times it’s a new challenge and I enjoy it.
The other exhibit I've thoroughly enjoyed is The African Presence in Mexico. That was probably the exhibit that really opened my eyes up wide as to the history of Mexico that includes the African experience and contribution.
Another exhibit that I really loved curating is one that was called ‘A Declaration of Immigration,’ and that was a totally contemporary art exhibit that looked at immigration from the perspective of my community. All the artists were living contemporary artists. I also worked with cultural centers across the city that represent their ethnic groups. I worked with Japanese Americans, Irish Americans, the Polish museum, Swedish museum... I mean there was a long list of different cultural institutions that I was able to work with. And that was a really special thing because it broke out of the strictly Mexican mold. We didn’t want people to think that immigration was a Mexican issue; it’s a US issue and we are just one of the chapters in that story.
[Another one of my favorite exhibits was] Arte Diseño Xicágo, the first one from 2018. I loved curating that exhibit because it let me look into research and learn about my community’s roots in the city of Chicago. I’m always looking at Mexico, always studying and learning about Mexico, but this one actually let me look at my own backyard and the Mexican community here in the Midwest. It was so much fun to do.
I guess my favorite exhibits are the ones where I get to research and learn a lot and work with interesting people. Not that the other ones don’t have that, but those are the ones that stand out as being extra special.
Nina: Can you walk me through the process of curating an exhibit?
Moreno: Sure—it depends on which exhibit though. I guess I could talk about the big steps without getting caught in the details, but they are different.
I’ve curated history exhibits that look back over one hundred years, I’ve curated contemporary exhibits that look at the present moment, I’ve curated exhibits of folk art from Mexico that look back hundreds of years and looks at different regions and small towns, and I’ve curated exhibits where I visit one artist’s studio and do a one-person show. So as you can imagine, the steps may be similar, but the details of that process are different for the type of exhibit you’re curating. Sometimes I start in the artist’s studio, or sometimes I start in the library. Which one do you think I like more?
Nina: Ummm. Artist’s studio?
Moreno: Yeah.
First, I get the main point of the exhibit clear in my head. If I had to say it in two sentences, what is the main point? Why am I going to devote the next two years of my life to uncover this?
The next thing I figure out is ‘who’s going to be the intended audience?’ It's always important to know who you're talking to, so you can really address the situation so they completely get it. That kind of vies me a true path. It's easy to lose your way in an exhibit; there are so many fascinating things. ‘Oh my god I didn't know about this, it's incredible!’ But is it a diversion? Sometimes, you know what, the answer is it’s still worth it. So knowing who the audience is is key. That even helps me figure out ‘who is not the intended audience will still love it or benefit it or maybe even push back?’ I don’t care if everybody loves and agrees with the premise. It's not about making friends.
So those are the first two things. One is the message, and next is the audience. And the third part is probably the map. How are we going to tell this story? What objects are clearly going to spell out the story? In a way as a curator, I’m sort of like a storyteller. But instead of using worlds, I’m using artwork, artifacts, objects, and then a bunch of other things in Mexico we call museografía—graphic design, how something is displayed… Those kinds of things also contribute to telling the story.
The final parts are finding those objects or those artists, but then making sure that they're going to fit in the gallery. That’s kind of like the nuts and bolts. How many linear feet do I have on this wall? Do I need to find more artwork or do I have too much? Usually, I have too much and need to edit down all the sections so they fit neatly. If you jam it all in, people are going to lose the story. Or if there’s not enough, people are not going to read all the text. I hate it when there’s so much text you have to read in order to understand it.
And that's it. And then basically, the Visual Arts Department team comes in. They all have different skill sets; they all have different roles to play, and they come together as this great team, almost like an orchestra, and pull together this exhibit in a way I could never have done by myself. They make it better.
Nina: As Chief Curator, you hold power in choosing which art pieces to showcase and which narratives to tell. How do you decide what to keep or not?
Moreno: A lot of times it is incredibly difficult. Editing the exhibit is much more difficult than adding to it. I can find fifty works of art that are perfect for this exhibit and illustrate exactly what I'm trying to convey and work well with the narrative. I think it’s more difficult and more challenging to edit down.
So the way that happens is I sit down with the images of all the pieces. I lay them out and I need to look at them. I’m the Visual Arts Director, the Chief Curator, so seeing them works for me; I’m trying to see the story. It’s like making a movie or a zine—this and this chapter, and this connects with that, and this piece is a bridge that will connect these two sections. And I go over and over and over again to make sure that it's all very clear. If I realize that there are too many pieces, ‘which is the weakest link?’ Or sometimes it becomes a financial reality. For example, if this painting is in another country and is going to cost us $8000 to get it here, maybe I can use the money elsewhere and not borrow that piece.
This museum uses fine art to tell stories about Mexican culture and history. Those images need to work seamlessly to tell that story. I'm looking for a clear, clean narrative. But at the end of the day, sometimes it’s gut instinct.
Nina: Art is a powerful medium of storytelling. How do you combine multiple pieces of art to create a cohesive story in an exhibit?
Moreno: That probably comes from experience. Going to so many good exhibits, going to so many bad exhibits, and understanding the craft of telling a story or weaving a narrative using artwork, artifacts, and objects. It just feels right.
Oftentimes I do reach out to the rest of the visual arts department. Everyone’s working and I sort of stop them and say, ‘come here come here, tell me what you think,’ and I put a few pieces of paper images down. And they’re sort of like ‘ok, I see what you’re saying.’ And then I’ll swap one with a new one and get their instant feedback and ask ‘does it still work? Does it work better?’ Asking other people for advice is very beneficial because they haven't necessarily been immersed in the research. So they're just telling you what they see. Sometimes curators get a little caught up in the details, so we have to trust our peers to say something like ‘I don’t think this painting is converting what you think it conveys.’ Sometimes because I've been studying that artist or that painting for so long, I understand what it represents. Despite what I as a curator feel about a particular piece, visitors of the museum are coming in without that [research] and don't always get it.
All those choices and the question you just asked has a lot to do with becoming very, very familiar with the material. If you don't understand even the smallest details of a story, you're not going to be able to convey that story as well.
Nina: Do you notice any themes of social justice throughout the exhibits you have curated? How do you use artwork to foster social change?
Moreno: Oooh. The answer is yes. I think this museum, since its founding, has a social justice mission. And of course my liberation theology background feeds right into that. I think just doing any exhibit that represents the perspective of the Mexican or Mexican American community, just that fact alone, is an act of social justice. Sometimes it’s overt in the works of art, sometimes it’s very subtle in the works of art, but it's almost always present. Very few pieces that we display are simply decorative. Even the works of art that may be abstract are still related to the mission of the museum, which weaves in social justice for the community.
Nina: Ok, two more questions. I’m really curious and appreciate all your thoughtful answers. You talked about how art is a form of storytelling—I’m wondering what art means to you and what you enjoy the most about curating.
Moreno: Mmm. Two things and I think I've said them before. One is that every exhibit is like a college course, and I learn so much. After the exhibit opens to the public, I understand something very well I didn't know even existed three years before. So, I continue to learn and grow with each exhibit.
The second is the people I get to meet and encounter on this curating journey. I go to art studios, galleries, museum, archives, and collections, and I meet some of the most wonderful, smart, and creative people. Sometimes I meet people I wouldn’t really want to go on vacation with, but they have an incredible collection nonetheless. I may not agree with them, but it’s still fun to talk to them. The journey of curating allows me to cross paths with some of the most creative communities in both Mexico and across the US.
Nina: In the future, what would you like to see more of in regard to the art and museum community within Chicago, Mexico, or elsewhere?
Moreno: Wow. That's… What would I like to see?
I would like to see a continuation of works of art and exhibitions that let people see how much we actually have in common. It doesn't matter if you're looking at a piece for ancient Greece or Aztecs or contemporary Mexico. I think art gives us the opportunity to walk in each other's shoes and experience life—even if it’s just for a moment—through somebody else's eyes, imagination, or memory. When we do that successfully, people actually understand how much we have in common. So I guess I’m talking about humanity. I know it’s kind of idealistic, but the more people can learn about other cultures and humanity, the more they can see themselves.
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